A "quiet" little heart to heart talk

Now before I begin with a rant that I’ve repeated countless numbers of times in grassroot, please note that 1. This is probably going to be anything but quiet, 2. this opinion is shared by many across the whole game, not just me, and 3. I’m only saying this because I care too much about this game to let it fester.

Point one i’m bringing to the light here: Your current staff as a whole and as a working entity is incompetent, and your hiring process is nothing more than a popularity vote as of now, and has nothing to do with actual ability to do said job. Case in point making Cinder a mod. Why do I use her as an example? Because she has been abusing her power as a mod constantly, with no consequence, while at the same time ignoring what her job really entails. Now people can say what right I have to say such a thing, but I’ve been kicked by her from the game simply for saying I like Moizing better. And I have received complaints from other players along the same lines.

I’m receiving complaints. That right, that there is a huge blaring contradiction. I’m not staff. I only have an app sitting in the festering pit where all apps go. Why i’m the one receiving complaints only god knows. What I do know is the fact that I, a regular player, not a staff member is getting complaints. Now from past experiences as a member of MMO staff this implies several things.

1: The players no longer trust the staff to listen to their complaints.
2: The staff don’t listen to their complaints.
3: Staff activity is stagnant, which means no true progress is being made.

And this isn’t even the only thing that is wrong with your staff. When you’re keeping inactive staff and not bringing in new, active, competent staff, who aren’t making the excuse “I haven’t been told to do anything that’s why I’m not doing anything”, that brings to question your inner structure.

When you do add staff, you add ones who are not only impolite, rude, and self centered, you are hiring them only for their popularity in the game. And not to mention adding Pika again after that fiasco. No one in their right mind would hire someone again after they pulled that crap.

Keeping inactive staff that not only roadblock any real progress, but believe they have the right to say what goes and what doesn’t in a game they no longer contribute to is bad management, bad decision making, and is ultimately killing your game.

Point 2: Game progress.

Yeah yeah, sure, sure, adding new dungeons is progress.

No it is not. Not when your game is riddled with bugs, inconsistencies, a “tutorial that isn’t” and constant problems.
Not when they’re for only endgame players to enjoy.

This game could have a vastly improved player base if you had an actual guiding system for new players. Just running them through that exbel woods thing at the beginning isn’t much of a tutorial. Players arrive at town completely confused about what to do from then on. “Where do I go to train, where do I find missions, why are there no missions” etc. Not only is this absurdly easy to fix, it should have been fixed before any new things were being added in, or at least fixed far earlier than this point in time. I have seen countless new people, only to have them say “I have no idea what to do in this game” then I never see them online again.

Bugs, such as that time spaz that occurred earlier this week, the boss not spawning, etc, should have been addressed the first time this happened, not left as is.

Point 3, and this ties back into point 1, Lack of staff interaction. First off, before I begin this section, if I hear one more time that “Staff have their lives too”, then I’m gonna punch someone, because that can be easily mediated, but has not. How? Limited periods of time that a person can be staff. After that time is up, if your activity is less than stellar without good reason, then you are removed from staff, and promptly replaced.

Staff interaction has been improving in its own slow, ponderous way. However, said interaction isn’t always positive. Mainly one person for which it isn’t positive, but ignoring that, it has been improving. However, that doesn’t excuse the fact that its only around 3-4 staff members who ever interact with the player base, and usually only 1 is online at a time, while apparently you have what, 20 staff members. When I hear that people who are for some reason still on staff, but haven’t been seen for more than 6 months, are hindering game progress, I can only question if there is, if any, organization or structure to this supposedly working entity.

Once again, this has been a quiet, heart to heart talk with your friendly neighborhood Rubickx (and the rest of the neighborhood), feel free to call me an idiot, ban me, kick me for no viable reason other than I prefer to associate with someone more than you, or whatever floats your boat. Just keep in mind, that if these points are not addressed soon, Pmu will slowly decline.

Suggestion =/= Rant

Some decent points here, but as is true with most of these suggestions not much effort was put into finding a solution. Moreover, pointing fingers doesn’t exactly get your point across very well, and mostly certainly does not help to get you taken seriously. There’s also a lack of substantiation in any of your accusations.

Lack of substantiation would be if I haven’t had people actually tell me of past experiences. I’ve spoken to past staff, and that is where the base of my entire topic has been. As for finding a solution, I have already proposed several, if not in this topic. Pointing fingers point taken, however the one who was pointed at was simply a convenient example to a point that already has existed, and has yet to be fixed. Not to mention, Screenshots exist.

And allow me to point out, if you actually read the topic word for word, you would have noticed there are in fact several solutions proposed in the entire essay.

Lack of substantiation would be if I haven’t had people actually tell me of past experiences. I’ve spoken to past staff, and that is where the base of my entire topic has been. As for finding a solution, I have already proposed several, if not in this topic. Pointing fingers point taken, however the one who was pointed at was simply a convenient example to a point that already has existed, and has yet to be fixed. Not to mention, Screenshots exist.[/quote]
I don’t know how long you’ve played PMU, since your account was made today - so you might be an old player or new, however from years of experience, I’ve personally seen few examples of the things you’ve stated (popularity vote, staff inadequacy, lack of interaction), and each time this has happened, the issue has resolved itself in due course. It’s not exactly a secret that our staff isn’t the most organised - case in point the amount of inactive members of staff - however, I don’t find issue in this. If PMU was a larger game then maybe, but we make do, and there aren’t any major problems that we’re faced with in terms of inadequacy, so be and let be. And in an instance where you are facing real problems, discuss them in particular rather than what has been done here, a vast generalisation.

In regard to you using Cinder as an example, I find it rude and unjustified. It doesn’t add to your point and turns a debate into a dispute, which is, I’m guessing, not what you had in mind.

One last thing, if you have screenshots to substantiate your points, then it would help to point out where specific issues lie.

I want to start off by saying that I am not a staff member, and nor will I ever claim to be. However, I would like to address something here. All of this is purely opinion, and should not be taken as fact.

I’m going to talk about one point here.

“Case in point making Cinder a mod. Why do I use her as an example? Because she has been abusing her power as a mod constantly, with no consequence, while at the same time ignoring what her job really entails. Now people can say what right I have to say such a thing, but I’ve been kicked by her from the game simply for saying I like Moizing better. And I have received complaints from other players along the same lines.”

Anyway, first point, is Cinder’s ‘abuse’ of her power. I have not been on PMU often, but I do know Cinder as a person, and I do find it very hard to believe she’d abuse her powers. Chances are, her kicking you and others could’ve been a joke, and not something to be taken seriously. PMU has the most outgoing staff of any community I’ve seen. However, I will not deny the possibility of one or even several of our staff being corrupt.

“If you’re planning on accusing a current Staff Member of being corrupt, show Administrators proof. If you just call on any specific Staff member corrupt without any solid proof, you will not be seen as credible.”

That is from the Rules page. Now, I’m pretty sure that you don’t trust Administrators (If any actually exist) with complaints. But regardless, it is very recommended to show proof. A lot of proof comes in the form of a screenshot, which you do not seem to have any of. Therefore, at this current moment, I do not think you’re being seen as credible.

As for my own opinions on this, the topic seems pretty disorganized, with solutions sprinkled here and there, which could be why Drakos has not seen your suggestions. I’m bringing this up because while you suggested organization, your own thread isn’t, at least in my eyes, very organized. You could do something like,
'Problems-

-’

'Solutions-

-’

and that’d make for a good thread. Now as for in-game, I believe that the staff really should be more active, and at least let us know what they’re working on–Maybe even post screenshots to the PMU Tumblr. I do not, however, believe that they are rude or incompetent, as I know these people and I do believe they’re good people. I do believe that organization could be needed, however.
As for the tutorial that is not a tutorial, you should’ve seen PMU before that was implemented. Progress is happening, albeit slowly. The main thing is, dungeons are a huge part of the game. Again, with organization, progress can be made quicker. I haven’t been on often, so I do not have much authority to address these other points.
And finally, bugs. Yes, the game has a lot of bugs. Yes, they are not fixed. But these bugs do not completely murder the game in my opinion. I do believe the staff should put them on higher priority, but otherwise, the bugs can be lived through. It’s not like eating an apple will crash the server, after all.
Anyway, this is all just an opinion from a PMU player. ~Sorra

In regard to you using Cinder as an example, I find it rude and unjustified. It doesn’t add to your point and turns a debate into a dispute, which is, I’m guessing, not what you had in mind.

One last thing, if you have screenshots to substantiate your points, then it would help to point out where specific issues lie.

But regardless, it is very recommended to show proof. A lot of proof comes in the form of a screenshot, which you do not seem to have any of. Therefore, at this current moment, I do not think you’re being seen as credible.

Before you guys read this post, please note I have nothing against Cinder as a person. But the fact that you’re allowed to mess with players like this without their permission is not okay.

Here Drakos, Sorra, and everybody else that might read this, I’ve got screenies.

[spoilerRubickx kick he stated in the original post:3b0ztzoh]

[/details]

And why are staff allowed to kick players again for funsies? Maybe, you know, Rubickx didn’t want to be kicked? Even if it is such a minor act, it definitely displays a note of immaturity and technically an abuse of commands.

[spoilerAnd my MJ exp is gone.:3b0ztzoh]

[/details]

In the first screenshot, we’re waiting for Cinder to warp us due to an unfortunate player disconnection.
But in the second one? It’s Cinder’s Scizor named Harvest killing things in /hunt. After Cinder warped us. While I didn’t get a close look, the battle log I think should display it.

Maybe you think I’m lying. Maybe you think the screenshot proof isn’t enough. Maybe you think Toxi’s Pokemon was named Harvest or something. Whatever. I’ve got more screenshots too.

Here’s me in an MJ run with Cinder and the same Scizor called Harvest. Then my Kecleon, Vybz Cartel, getting exp.(we were in a party that run)


Stealing exp is not okay in general. But why would a staff have to do it to a player? I would’ve hit 76 that run, which was my daily goal, if not for that one floor. 20k exp gone and I had to put in a little bit of extra time just to make up for it.

Anyway, I did not intend for this post to be a “rat on Cinder for doing stuff” post, so I’m going to move on to other subjects stated.

For this main topic, I’m going to move onto the points listed on hand.

I really do agree with Rubickx on a lot of stuff(although if I were to make this post I wouldn’t try to make it as rude as this) mentioned here in his post.
Firstly, the staff. According to the link on the forums(viewtopic.php?f=22&t=150), we have around 21 staff(23 I think because Dandy is a Mapper and ChaotixBluix is a Mod, but aren’t in the list.). I only see about, 2-4 people daily. Yeah, you can say that they have lives too, but at least they can tell us why the hell they aren’t in game, or keep us updated on what’s going on. There’s other staff that log on too, but sometimes. Or post in the Skype chat. That brings us to a total to about 10 people who are contributing to the game in some way. What about the other 13? What are they doing? Why are they still on the staff team if they’re extremely inactive or missing?

Secondly, the game development. I agree with this also. You can say that dungeons are progress, and we actually have some starters released(Munchlax was put in Gritty Hollow today, woohoo!). Neat. Great. But only for the people that know what they’re doing. What about the new players? There’s a “tutorial” that tells them basic commands, like how to use the controls, and some NPCs even tell you how global chat works, and other stuff like that. But then once they’re done with Exbel Woods, they’re literally placed smack dab in the middle of the world and don’t know what to do. There’s literally the Eevee that tells you to go to Tiny Grotto, but that’s actually blocked from being done until you do Cliffside Cave. Sure, there are people that tell you where to go( Sour Root Cave, get cut, grind a bit then go to Cliffside to evolve then grind @ skylift until you can get rock smash), but new players are new. They don’t know what to do. Many players I see are actually intimidated with the lack of a straightforward tutorial and actually never log in again.

Also, the house commands. They’re literally placed on one sign, blocks the whole chat if you read it, and it’s awkwardly placed in front of the housing center. Too many times I see “how to leave your house” because of the lack of direction.

I don’t have a good suggestion, but maybe you could add NPCs in front of some dungeons telling you what entails in there and what your rewards may be. Or like, you can have a scripted NPC like Buneary walk you to the entrance of the dungeon. Or like, arrows pointing. For houses, I’m actually stuck and have no idea myself, since a lot of that requires messing around with stuff inside.

Finally the bugs. They’ve existed for a while now. Boss spawning and all that. I’m not an expert in code, so I really can’t comment on anything. It really just needs a mention.

But I should probably mention one, which involves my trigger word, Substitute. Remember how I kept crying over my lost Purple Kecleon? Yeah, that one. Why are different forms not counted as different species? If they were different species, then the movepools could be the same and mine wouldn’t be green in the first place.

As a player, these are my personal issues with the game, and while I certainly don’t expect to be catered to like a king about it, some of the issues in Rubickx’s original post are serious and actually need to be dealt with.

The fact that she kicked me for no discernible breach in rules is already an abuse of power. This is coming from someone who has worked as professional staff in a game. You do something like this, even as a joke, for no reason other than for fun, you can get demoted, if not sacked. And it has not been the first time either. Now if you people can stop only looking at the point that caused PMU to explode in global chat, and actually read the entire post, you can see that 1: I am attacking the staff as a whole, not just Cinder, who just so happened to be unfortunate enough to be a prime example, 2: I have made suggestions to streamline the game, and improve new player experience, and 3: Those suggestions could’ve been implemented long ago if not for the points i’ve mentioned in the original post.

Warning. I think I wrote the PMU Forum equivalent of the Great Wall of China. Sorry.

Let me first start by saying that there are some points where I wholeheartedly agree, and some where I don’t, but you do bring up some valid and relevant issues that need to be addressed. Thank you for bringing this topic up, however “unpleasant” this discussion may be. Apologies for sounding cheesy perhaps, but feedback and criticism are important for the development of a game. Regardless, this post should be considered, discussed upon, and not immediately dismissed because there is always something we can fix and learn from.

I just kindly ask everyone participating to keep this discussion civil and polite, even if you strongly disagree with anything said. This thread escalating into a flame war will not get us anywhere and it will most definitely not solve any problems we currently have.

I don’t think the hiring process is completely dependent on popularity, but having connections within the current certainly boosts your chances, I can’t deny that. Having a level of team synergy and a friendly environment is important.

While I’m here, I might as well clarify: I’m a sort of pseudo-staff. I’m not in any official PMU Staff chats. I don’t have any Forum moderating power, although I wish I did because of those pesky spam bots… I also do not have any say in any Staff decisions regarding the game, nor am I aware of them, which I don’t really mind because I can’t conveniently log in on a regular basis.

I’m more of a Player Support Bot and Forum Organizer at this point. I was just offered a job to organize some categories and spiff up the place based on PoochieHead’s Forum Overhaul Suggestion out of the blue by Flare and I took her up on that offer.

Although I am not crystal clear on the exacts of the hiring process, I am sure there is a level of “competence” and standard that the applying player needs to pass. I do know that being promoted to Mapper requires the Mod to pass a mapping test. If I were more aware, I would be able to give you a more detailed response on this one. Sorry. This is only based on what I’ve seen around the few years I’ve spent here.

Anyway, I feel like PMU has a hit and miss track record when it comes to picking up Staff. There have been some who have been genuinely personable, hardworking, and reasonable. (Char and Foxie come to mind.) Then there have been some other previous members who haven’t performed as well and as regularly as others.

I’ve only talked to Cinder a handful of times, so I can’t exactly give you an educated and informed opinion on this topic. I’d rather not make possibly false assumptions. Sorry I can’t contribute to this.

However, if you feel like this is a case of mis-moderation that needs to be addressed, collect evidence (screenshots with chat logs) and compile a convincing argument to present to the Admins. I can’t guarantee that it will get very far, but it doesn’t hurt to try.

I feel like this one splits 50/50 and also ties in the “hit and miss” hiring I was talking about earlier.

I don’t think it’s a matter of not listening (at least not 100% of the time), but the lack of response and interaction which I discuss near the end of this text wall.

(Sorry. Messed up the order of your post, but bear with me here because it was relevant to what I wanted to add on.)

I am aware (and somewhat participating) in the behind the scenes GUI overhaul that is going on currently. (Whitewing, Coki, and Fennes have made wonderful additions and progress.)

Nevertheless, I think you refer to live in game content, in which yes - I agree! New dungeons don’t cut it. They only benefit players who have been around for a little while or those who are a high enough level to even live through them. There haven’t been new “features”, which makes me a bit disappointed because dungeons can only last so long.

There are so many things that I’d love to be added into this game. This includes some points you’ve mentioned: The tutorial that addresses the initial confusion of the beginning hours / days, a better online list, a long awaited upgraded friend list, and so many more things.

I think we can partially attribute this to the disappearance and final retirement of Pikablu, a former Admin and Programmer, who I have much respect for regarding his work ability and ethic. (The mysterious Pikachu can and has churned out so much content in such a short amount of time singlehandedly. That deserves serious dedication and credit.)

If anything, the Staff Team is more short on staff than ever before. Perhaps it can be justified due to the smaller, constant online playerbase due to some shaky fractures in the past, but I am not opposed to hiring new blood. I’m certain there are a ton of new applications waiting to be read and a few special, capable people hidden in the pile. There are some people who I trust and believe are ready to take on this sort of task and have applied recently, so I’m waiting.

Despite this, there also must be many subpar applications to sift through and I’d hate to be the person who has to read them all. I also think this contributes to their “hit and miss” track record. The Admins and Team are more prone to trusting and working with someone who is a well known member and has good relations with the team. They can be hired more easily, but it might not work out as smoothly as planned.

Again, I bring up mis-moderation reports.

However, the Pika shenanigans are a giant, complicated, baffle-fest of a story that has more sides and inside info than a pentakaidecahedron. There are so many opinions and game progression and control beliefs that have been brought up in this mess.

Also, I would like to bring up Checkered Zebra’s various posts on the current status of the rules and improvements that could be made upon them.

“Enforced Rules not on Ruleset”
And I can’t seem to find the thread about a moderation system that is constant and laid out for everyone to see, but I think it should resemble something like this: Elsword Game Policy.

It is simple for Moderators to follow as long as offenders are properly kept track of AND it is visible to players who can easily report mis-moderation because the standard punishments are publicly listed.

I sense the obligatory “but they have lives outside of PMU too!” argument hanging in the clouds above me, but my response to this is - HIRE! Find and search for capable and competent Moderators who can help manage your game when others cannot be there. In addition to this, a promotion of the Report User forum with appropriate screenshots is severely needed in the game. It needs to be stressed that this is an appropriate and civil way of dealing with offenders, arguments, and flame wars and is encouraged by the moderating team.

God, I don’t know how much I’ve thought about this. The lack of Staff interaction has been a significant hinderance to the game. I know they don’t completely ignore any suggestions in this Forum, but unless the thread is written supremely well, is written by a known member, or it has a ridiculous number of posts in a short span of time, I feel like it is never replied to. They need to have someone who replies back, even if it’s just five minutes of their time, saying that it HAS been read and what the status about it is.

Also, I believe the players have a bit of stepping up to do as well. Just because a suggestion is terribly written, short, not descriptive, and is riddled with problems doesn’t mean you shut it down. This is a suggestion FORUM. A place where we can discuss and improve on ideas. Please don’t disregard any suggestions. If you think it’s terrible, please explain WHY and give a solution or fix to the problems in question. We won’t make any progress if players just bash something.

This point, the lack of Staff interaction, I believe has contributed significantly to the “lack of trust” you mentioned. Although they are authority figures, have powers on the Forums and in game, and should be respected, that doesn’t mean they cannot have a proper discussion with players. There have been efforts to remedy this with a handful of Skype groups such as the PMU ODP (Open Development Project), however, I feel like we can do better.

Once you hit the “Staff Title”, I’ve noticed a slow change, but a change nonetheless. I feel like the Staff are miles above the player’s heads, especially since they are put on a pedestal by some. There becomes an immediate disconnect in the relationship between the new Staff member and the players they once were acquainted with. A few old friends of mine became Staff members and I too have felt a sense of detachment from the regular players. Of course, part of this comes from needing to be “hush hush” about certain topics, but the miles of sky and clouds between the two groups have become a serious problem to the development and progress of the game.

Yes, the Skype groups are progress, but I believe we need more Forum presence and people like you to bring up serious topics that need to be discussed.

Again, yes, I agree. There are only a handful of public faces for the Staff team, which is a problem that, again, contributes to the lack of trust issue going on. How are the players supposed to believe in someone they never talk to or see in game?

You are not an idiot. Definitely. Thank you for bringing up a dusty, but serious topic that I hope will be properly discussed and addressed upon.

God bless you if you took the time to read this whole thing. (I’m so sorry.)

I don’t think the hiring process is completely dependent on popularity, but having connections within the current certainly boosts your chances, I can’t deny that. Having a level of team synergy and a friendly environment is important.

While I’m here, I might as well clarify: I’m a sort of pseudo-staff. I’m not in any official PMU Staff chats. I don’t have any Forum moderating power, although I wish I did because of those pesky spam bots… I also do not have any say in any Staff decisions regarding the game, nor am I aware of them, which I don’t really mind because I can’t conveniently log in on a regular basis.

I’m more of a Player Support Bot and Forum Organizer at this point. I was just offered a job to organize some categories and spiff up the place based on PoochieHead’s Forum Overhaul Suggestion out of the blue by Flare and I took her up on that offer.

Although I am not crystal clear on the exacts of the hiring process, I am sure there is a level of “competence” and standard that the applying player needs to pass. I do know that being promoted to Mapper requires the Mod to pass a mapping test. If I were more aware, I would be able to give you a more detailed response on this one. Sorry. This is only based on what I’ve seen around the few years I’ve spent here.

Anyway, I feel like PMU has a hit and miss track record when it comes to picking up Staff. There have been some who have been genuinely personable, hardworking, and reasonable. (Char and Foxie come to mind.) Then there have been some other previous members who haven’t performed as well and as regularly as others.

I’ve only talked to Cinder a handful of times, so I can’t exactly give you an educated and informed opinion on this topic. I’d rather not make possibly false assumptions. Sorry I can’t contribute to this.

However, if you feel like this is a case of mis-moderation that needs to be addressed, collect evidence (screenshots with chat logs) and compile a convincing argument to present to the Admins. I can’t guarantee that it will get very far, but it doesn’t hurt to try.

I feel like this one splits 50/50 and also ties in the “hit and miss” hiring I was talking about earlier.

I don’t think it’s a matter of not listening (at least not 100% of the time), but the lack of response and interaction which I discuss near the end of this text wall.

(Sorry. Messed up the order of your post, but bear with me here because it was relevant to what I wanted to add on.)

I am aware (and somewhat participating) in the behind the scenes GUI overhaul that is going on currently. (Whitewing, Coki, and Fennes have made wonderful additions and progress.)

Nevertheless, I think you refer to live in game content, in which yes - I agree! New dungeons don’t cut it. They only benefit players who have been around for a little while or those who are a high enough level to even live through them. There haven’t been new “features”, which makes me a bit disappointed because dungeons can only last so long.

There are so many things that I’d love to be added into this game. This includes some points you’ve mentioned: The tutorial that addresses the initial confusion of the beginning hours / days, a better online list, a long awaited upgraded friend list, and so many more things.

I think we can partially attribute this to the disappearance and final retirement of Pikablu, a former Admin and Programmer, who I have much respect for regarding his work ability and ethic. (The mysterious Pikachu can and has churned out so much content in such a short amount of time singlehandedly. That deserves serious dedication and credit.)

If anything, the Staff Team is more short on staff than ever before. Perhaps it can be justified due to the smaller, constant online playerbase due to some shaky fractures in the past, but I am not opposed to hiring new blood. I’m certain there are a ton of new applications waiting to be read and a few special, capable people hidden in the pile. There are some people who I trust and believe are ready to take on this sort of task and have applied recently, so I’m waiting.

Despite this, there also must be many subpar applications to sift through and I’d hate to be the person who has to read them all. I also think this contributes to their “hit and miss” track record. The Admins and Team are more prone to trusting and working with someone who is a well known member and has good relations with the team. They can be hired more easily, but it might not work out as smoothly as planned.

Again, I bring up mis-moderation reports.

However, the Pika shenanigans are a giant, complicated, baffle-fest of a story that has more sides and inside info than a pentakaidecahedron. There are so many opinions and game progression and control beliefs that have been brought up in this mess.

Also, I would like to bring up Checkered Zebra’s various posts on the current status of the rules and improvements that could be made upon them.

“Enforced Rules not on Ruleset”
And I can’t seem to find the thread about a moderation system that is constant and laid out for everyone to see, but I think it should resemble something like this: Elsword Game Policy.

It is simple for Moderators to follow as long as offenders are properly kept track of AND it is visible to players who can easily report mis-moderation because the standard punishments are publicly listed.

I sense the obligatory “but they have lives outside of PMU too!” argument hanging in the clouds above me, but my response to this is - HIRE! Find and search for capable and competent Moderators who can help manage your game when others cannot be there. In addition to this, a promotion of the Report User forum with appropriate screenshots is severely needed in the game. It needs to be stressed that this is an appropriate and civil way of dealing with offenders, arguments, and flame wars and is encouraged by the moderating team.

God, I don’t know how much I’ve thought about this. The lack of Staff interaction has been a significant hinderance to the game. I know they don’t completely ignore any suggestions in this Forum, but unless the thread is written supremely well, is written by a known member, or it has a ridiculous number of posts in a short span of time, I feel like it is never replied to. They need to have someone who replies back, even if it’s just five minutes of their time, saying that it HAS been read and what the status about it is.

Also, I believe the players have a bit of stepping up to do as well. Just because a suggestion is terribly written, short, not descriptive, and is riddled with problems doesn’t mean you shut it down. This is a suggestion FORUM. A place where we can discuss and improve on ideas. Please don’t disregard any suggestions. If you think it’s terrible, please explain WHY and give a solution or fix to the problems in question. We won’t make any progress if players just bash something.

This point, the lack of Staff interaction, I believe has contributed significantly to the “lack of trust” you mentioned. Although they are authority figures, have powers on the Forums and in game, and should be respected, that doesn’t mean they cannot have a proper discussion with players. There have been efforts to remedy this with a handful of Skype groups such as the PMU ODP (Open Development Project), however, I feel like we can do better.

Once you hit the “Staff Title”, I’ve noticed a slow change, but a change nonetheless. I feel like the Staff are miles above the player’s heads, especially since they are put on a pedestal by some. There becomes an immediate disconnect in the relationship between the new Staff member and the players they once were acquainted with. A few old friends of mine became Staff members and I too have felt a sense of detachment from the regular players. Of course, part of this comes from needing to be “hush hush” about certain topics, but the miles of sky and clouds between the two groups have become a serious problem to the development and progress of the game.

Yes, the Skype groups are progress, but I believe we need more Forum presence and people like you to bring up serious topics that need to be discussed.

Again, yes, I agree. There are only a handful of public faces for the Staff team, which is a problem that, again, contributes to the lack of trust issue going on. How are the players supposed to believe in someone they never talk to or see in game?

You are not an idiot. Definitely. Thank you for bringing up a dusty, but serious topic that I hope will be properly discussed and addressed upon.

God bless you if you took the time to read this whole thing. (I’m so sorry.)[/quote]

No, thank YOU for actually being one of the few people who read the entire post from start to finish and not just assuming that I’m only attacking Cinder. I really don’t know how to say this politely, but all the responses so far feel like a bunch of people who didn’t read the whole thing assuming they know what is going on.

So once again, thank YOU for actually reading the entire post.

Regarding point one:
The staff do listen to the complaints of players, but acting upon it takes time, which leads to the question of staff activity. I do agree with your point regarding staff activity. Many of the members of the staff team are busy with college, work, et cetera, and therefore can not continue the development of PMU. You suggest that “new, active, and competent” staff members be brought in to replace the inactive members of the team.

The problem is this. The staff team have to be certain that anyone new they choose to hire be competent, respectful, and skilled to complete the task they applied for.

With that said, not every applicant will have the degree of competence, respect, and skill necessary to be a staff member. There is also the possibility that an applicant may no longer want the job, or the staff team may not have noticed it at all. That is why it is allowed to send another application after a month if no response has been given since.

Regarding point two:
I think that game progress is fine, but I do agree with the issue of bugs and a lack of a more comprehensive tutorial. Regarding the current tutorial and any future ones, there should be the option to replay them (or at least a sign nearby that gives help), as many players rush through the current tutorial, even those that might need the help.

There’s also the “Help” menu in-game, which only has one topic over Controls. I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again: there should be more topics in the Help menu.

Regarding point three:
The problem with constantly replacing staff is that not everybody fits the criteria to be a competent staff member, and not every new staff member may be on board with what is “in the works”. This may in the end hinder development, and it would bring us back to the second point.

Actually there are only 11 active staff members left, not 20. They are: Andy, Bloodthirst, ChaotixBluix, Cinder, Erladino, Flare, Jordsters, Kirk, MagicWiz, and Swampeh,


Regarding Cinder on the topic of kicing Rubickx. I see the conversation being innocent and Cinder kicking more as a joke than an abuse of power. There are other instances with other members of staff where they would ‘eat’ or ‘stare into your soul’ which warps you to another map. I actually see Cinder’s case as less of an “abuse of power” than what other staff members have done because this was only a one-time thing while what the other staff members did was a continuous occurrence and affected more than one player.

Though on the case of Cinder interrupting your MJ run, I do believe that it was a breach of power and a punishment should be given.


Note: I have been writing this for quite some time. I might not have noticed other posts that were made between the time I started and end.

Just a small reply right now; I’m glad you put this down on the forum, probably could’ve avoided aiming your scope at anyone, but yeah, your criticism, apart, from that is fair, and hopefully we can look at making changes.
I know that Andy has read this, just hasn’t had time to reply, with his backlog of Skype messages.

I’ll add my two cents a bit later when I get off work

EDIT:

Ok, so this is probably like… my fifth or so return to the staff team… my reasons for leaving were always different, but it was occasionally down to other staff.
One time I lost motivation due to the lack of effort given by other members of staff.
Since I’ve returned now, I mostly just work on stuff I can do myself, I don’t wanna have to rely on other people…
It’s just easier.
That’s not to say that I don’t think the current staff team are terrible, I honestly don’t know.
Judging by the fact that in the past few years between my various hiatuses, two regions have been released.

Currently I feel that we lack staff members, This is apparently on the to-do list, and hopefully we will find some soon (here’s a tip, if you’re reading this right now and you’re interested, get an app in.)

I personally am trying to get myself involved with the players, after all the players are the majority of the community… But we’re all pokemon fans, we all have this common ground, and the small number of you I’ve really connected to have been awesome, and I hope I’ve been somewhat awesome too! (I’m probably lame).

Now… I’ve been inactive for quite some time… and I was listed on the staff list for a lot of that time, so I can imagine the frustration when it seems like we have a team of like… 10 mappers but only 3 are ever online. I get that, and I did point that out while I was away. I’m not sure if it was addressed or not.

With your point #2; adding dungeons isn’t progress? I honestly feel like adding more content gives people more to do, and there are limited things us mappers can really do to help the game progress, although, I’ve been going through ideas, and adding new stuff that isn’t comprised of dungeons.
Most of the other things, such as the tutorial process could probably use a bit of work, but that sort of thing can’t just be done right away, and needs a clear direction explained to all staff involved to make sure we’re all working together toward the same goal. (It’s hard to make a handful of people see where you’re going with something)

As for #3; Staff literally do have lives, this is just a fact. PMU can’t be a priority over real life, especially since staff donate their own precious time to the game, in order to make improvements.
I personally can’t be online all that much, but I feel like when I can, I try to split my time 50-50 between doing things towards helping the game, and socialising, and getting players views on things. I personally believe the players should be heard, but that belief may not be what currently resounds throughout the staff team.
It’s mostly down to us having enough staff to cover most timezones. But of course, maintaining the quality!

Of course, this is how I experience things, I’ve only returned to the staff team recently, a lot is different, including the people themselves, I don’t know their philosophies or motivations to being staff. I just hope that it’s something productive.

Alright, i may not be super popular in this community, but i played PMU for a few years and due to personal issues i had to quit. Now, i’m back for real.

Let me say that in my eyes the game has improved a lot, being a payer who came back after 4 years i can see a lot of improvement and i can’t complain about it. I miss Holiday caves, sure, but considering two regions were added and countless dungeons i can say the game is growing.

As for the staff matter, i can see things haven’t changed much. I see staff are still disorganized. I’ve seen the “Staff have a life, too” excuse four years back and it is obvious they have not found a way to fix the interaction problem either. I do believe that if you want to take your responsabillity of becoming a staff you have to realize that these responsabillities won’t let you play and “enjoy” the game as you did as a player, i believe that when you get into the development team you need to understand you are there to WORK for players and you have duties to attend to. I am against abusing power, and i don’t see kicking a player for fun being fair, even if it was meant as a joke since those powers are meant to help players, not to play around. I picture being a moderator as someone who attends a shop and have to help costumers, you can’t be doing your own thing while people wait, nor you can be disrespectful. Even if you are joking there are some things that shouldn’t be said or done.

I find a bit funny the screenie where Cinder is calling Canadian people “dirty”, since the other day while me and some guild mates were speaking in guild chat in spanish she called us in global “Dirty spanish people”, and yes, i’m sorry if we speak spanish in our own guild, and no, i don’t have screenshots of that moment, but i did find it a bit out of place, since we weren’t breaking the rules nor were disturbing anyone.

But i don’t want to make it personal. i don’t have anything against Cinder as a person, and i don’t really know her well, i’ve seen plenty of the staff doing magnificent work, and i’m sure Cinder also attends to her responsabillities to some point. I am aware that we, players, don’t get to see the full content the staff is working on and i believe they should be recognized for what they accomplish, too.

In anyway, i do believe more people should be hired, probably taking in mind different timezones to cover the playerbase at different times.

Just my honest thought, i hope no one takes it wrong. :heart:

Aguni nailed it pretty much… Probably won’t do any good, but let’s see if I can offer some responses.

First off, I know you’re not happy about the current state of things, but making this seem more angry rant-like than organized suggestions to listed issues isn’t going to help any.

Popularity vote? Is that what you think this is? There are many factors that determine the process, from what I can recall, and popularity is but one of many. Personally, I don’t know Cinder well, if at all. Cannot speak for her. Can only offer you the solution of having concrete proof and presenting your case in private to Admins. It’s always how it has been done, iirc. Pointing fingers publicly, even as an example, will only cause unnecessary drama.

Though… as a former mod, I would strongly advise against using any form of commands to interfere with players’ game connection+play(bar actual rulebreaking)… there are limits and responsibilities. Using any command that warps/disconnects players when they don’t wish to be affected isn’t in the right no matter how fun/funny it seems, even done once is pushing it. It’s not a toy for “lulz”… not saying staff can’t have fun, but do be aware of things.

Have you ever tried forwarding these complaints to any staff you have seen? I would certainly hope you have.

Haven’t been told to do anything… Sounds like a lack of initiative and a fair amount of uncertainty. What do you exactly mean by that quote?

Pretty much what Aguni said.

Threatening to punch someone isn’t nice and won’t help you get your point across. Not saying flowers and sunshine, but you could have said something more neutral.

That’s what happened to me last year, but I never said a word about my departure. The inactives have probably been checking in from time to time, but anything else is anyone’s guess.

That there is another prime example of what not to put in your post. It’s fuel for potential flaming. I get what you’re saying, I know how you feel in some of your points, but this bit has no place amongst your text.

You’re not an idiot, it’s going to be read, and you won’t get banned-- assuming you will is foolish.

Agree or not, i do see these thing’s happen, but a popularity contest? I’m not to sure about that, I feel like its more of a friendship going on between player’s leading to some unheard/unseen player’s go up the rank’s all of a sudden and no one knows it better than the staff that currently or has been working in the project, or those who want to please to find a spot and be known, in my opinion.

The other part about all the spamming about ‘fix this fix that’ it tends to get overwhelming when to many un-noted requests take up most of the chat… and what makes things more unfair is that those who decide to post in-game (player’s who post in-game all of a sudden when a staff member logs on) are actually skipping those who have taken their time to post in the forums for something somewhat similar or completely different, and it makes it difficult to track those items that have not been noted, for example.

Recently Ive been hearing a lot of commotion on just 1 thing lately, and that is the mission board? I haven’t checked it out my self but looking in the forums, there isn’t anything it at all in the most recent few post…? and going back to “staff member logs on” players even post in game for help about something they them self’s could have prevented the issues to begin with, just to not lose items, or get another opportunity, etc.

And if the player doesn’t get what he/she want’s… well, they tend to hold it like a grudge… I dont know why.

I too have lost over 30 hard to get item’s in a specific family in a single run, and not once did i ask for a retry.

But even they have lives… (except if you’re younger, you probably don’t have that many responsibilities to handle just yet…) there are time when I could be on for days, but other times, I’m gone for weeks with out letting any one know… leading to a bit of relationship problems with my own friends, and for staff I kinda feel that’s relatable when some one in the team leaves on a hiatus and doesn’t have the time to spread the word, leading to other players thinking that he/she doesn’t really support the game as much anymore… (when a player asks, staff aren’t always too sure on what is actually happening, but still respond on what they think, rather than “i dont know” all the time)

Alright. I"ll address what I feel on the matters arisen.

I would like to say one thing from the outset: you cannot call a whole team incompetent and then give an example of a singular staff without proof. How are we meant to improve, or now who exactly has to improve/be reprimanded for their actions in the game if we do not receive proper reports? By the sounds of it, Cinder kicking people has been happening for a while yet this is the first I am hearing of it. I know Cinder quite well, and she honestly just has a jokey demeanour. Plus, the situation at hand was also a joking matter. She would not have done it had you been seriously expressing your opinion.

Regarding the fact that you have been receiving reports as opposed to us, you could always forward them. Sure, some players do not want to report people for reasons unbeknownst to us but if you link the evidence to us then we can deal with it. You may have to crop the player / their team out as they may not want their name given as the person who reported somebody else, but this is better than just complaining about receiving reports. But, this also goes back to the issue of staff inactivity, which you also brought up here.

Staff inactivity has been a problem for a long while. However, it is not only the players who have been affected. How about the staff who give 5-6 hours a day to the game? A prime example of this is Erladino. I commonly see him in game working like crazy. He is always working on something new or pushing forth existing matters. (For example, the sprite project as of recent.) He is also pushing for new sprites to be added and getting some community involvement in that by doing it through the ODP and Sprites Project Trello board. (Which, if any of you want to be added to, I would love to add you guys.) Anyway, back to my point, there are staff that go above and beyond and there are staff that simply do not. While not all staff make an appearance, some do commonly give their opinions on matters. Just because they cannot come on in game, it does not mean they should be reprimanded. Take me for example, I am somewhat active on skype but for the next few weeks I will be extremely busy both with college and some other personal courses and a vacation. I understand your frustration, but does that mean I should be kicked too? Though, saying this, after x amount of time has passed, I do feel that some action should be taken.

The staff that can deal with bugs such as bosses not spawning and destination array errors are admins. Those who release dungeons commonly do not need admin presence and so cannot deal with this. Instead, they take it upon themselves to work on new content for the players, whether this be mapping or creating dungeons. Sure, they are not necessarily contributing to the functionality of the game, it is however adding to what a lot of players have expressed their want for: items, pokemon and new places to train. Sure, releasing a dungeon is not a fix to any of the problems you have addressed however it is what the staff can do with the tools they have. Any rank between mod - dev cannot do what that of an admin can do. This is all I really have to say on the matter.

Point three has already been addressed prior in my previous responses, however there was another thing I wanted to comment on. The idea that staff are staff due to a “popularity contest”. This is not true. We have to cipher through all of the apps we receive and then weigh up our opinion on the matter of whether they should be staff. The idea of some players being able to articulate themselves better than others is inevitable and commonly they are the players we pick to join the team. This is not anything spiteful, but more as a matter of fact of somebody representing the team. If somebody has shoddy spelling and is warning somebody for, let"s say a swear imply, they may not get the problem across as successfully as a person who is able to articulate themselves. This may seem irrelevant, but the apps we receive we DO read. Sure, there may not always be a reply, but we are [u]busy[/u]. It is impossible to read every single app we receive at once. I try to, sure, but it is impossible. The idea that we simply hire staff based on whether they are liked or not is ridiculous. We would not do that. We hire who we see best fit for the job. This can take extensive interviewing which is why there may not necessarily be an instant fix. However, as many of you know already, we have been interviewing people as of recent. We are trying to tackle this issue.

Thank you for bringing up the topic, but there is one last thing I would like to say: [u]do NOT insult anybody[/u]. Starting your post with saying how the staff team is “incompetent” is not okay and actually breaks a current rule placed both here and in game.

Insulting via public chat, or private messages is not allowed. Depending on the severity, punishment can be given without a warning.

[This is a super general post, not targeting anyone!]

First, thank you Frubi, for taking out the time to write this post to address this issue. Even if bitterly phrased, it does get the point across, and I am sincerely grateful.

Second, I cannot stress on this enough:

:!!: Complaining =/= Working ’ :!!:

I’m referring to the mass complaints that were hurdled at staff on Global. You need to understand, complaining just wastes your time. With time, the staff become ‘immune’ to complaints. Let’s be honest, when all you do is nag and complain, your words lose their worth. They are no longer an effective changing force. So if you sincerely care about the game, and just aren’t trying to feel better about a grudge, you will do something about it. I say that from experience of like what, being here for 3 years? Yeah.

Now in this post, you openly attacked Cinder. Which isn’t the best way to go with things, but it gets the job done even if in a very ‘looked down upon’ way. She will now be more careful with what she does. I addressed this issue with her on Skype, and I hope she learned something from this. There’s no sugar coating or excusing, what she did was wrong. I assure you, she does not hold grudges, she was simply trying to joke around (as explained by her, and evident in the screenshot.) It was however, wrong, and it will be avoided in the near future. That wraps it up, for now.

So I thank you. I thank you for doing something about the issue, I thank you for helping a fellow staff learn something, and I thank you for making the effort.

[hr][/hr]

Back to the ‘doing’ part, I am extremely depressed to see how useless and ungrateful the community can be. It’s important that everyone understands that they must do what they want to see. The Staff are not your slaves, servants, and PMU is most certainly not a wish granting factory. If you really care about the game, you must work towards what you hope to achieve. Festi, Artmax, Coki, Lovi, Skye, Ludichat, Los, Fennes are all some very great examples of people who work restlessly towards attaining what they want to see in the game. We value such people, and help them discover their true potential.

-> Dislike the game interface? Start working on a new one.
-> Hate the tutorial? Give us a draft of a better one.
-> Want to see a new Pokemon in-game? Start Making / Arranging the sprite(s).
-> Want a no-item arena, or want to get exp after lvl 100? Code it. Work.

Start doing something, and I promise you, I will help you on each step.

The staff are simply here to mediate and facilitate the progress. Right now, I’m supervising the sprite board, Flare’s on the GUI stuff, and Andy’s accepting code additions. Most if not all contributions come from people who actually care about the game. They are the true masterminds, innovators and creators, because they’ve figured out how to pull the strings to make things happen, unlike the turtles in the toxic.

Yes, some staff literally do nothing, and are still enjoying the much coveted rank. It’s frustrating, and most certainly not okay for 3-4 staff to handle everything. They know who they are, and they know well, they are the real losers. We can’t do much about them yet; currently I’m working on guidelines, even addressing the inactivity issue.

Don’t get me wrong, a bunch of 8 -12 year olds complaining is very amusing and entertaining, but it’s useless, and again, a waste of precious time. You are proving to us, just how useless and worthless you are. We’re looking for the gems in the rocks. We have enough people who complain. Each one thinking they’ve found out the secret to what’s wrong with the game, the secret to life or whatever, playing their hand at being some kind of genius. No, we get enough of that. We know what’s wrong. We want people who are willing to do things. They are the ones who have a true future here, and positions clearly tied to the continuation of PMU’s success. They are the sort of people we want.

That’s all I have to say, thanks.

1 Like

I feel like people are ignorant of the fact that I deliberately wrote this in a tone that could be considered extremely rude. I am completely capable of writing something much more polite, but from reading previous threads, that would have resulted in several responses that would not have achieved anything, as a large group of the people who reply to this thread are so thick-headed in their ability to comprehend large words it is almost unbelieveable.

Now, I did not mean for the chaos to spread into the game itself, but as some people spread the word, things happen, and do remember I had nothing to do with it spreading into game. By writing this as a rant, and as rude as possible, I have successfully riled people up about a topic that should have been addressed long ago, thus making it much harder to ignore than other posts of the same nature.

However, I will say that it spilling into the game itself is not without benefit, because now it can be considered a test of the staff’s ability to keep things running smoothly.

As for all the claims that I do not have proof, proof has been submitted in Nuxl’s reply. Screenshots do exist. Do learn to read everything before making accusations. I do not begin arguments such as this with no basis to my statements. Should you not understand that fact, I recommend you take a beginners class in the art of Debate.

For those of you who did read the entire thread, and have replied with well reasoned counterarguments, I thank you for your input. However, the reasons behind my accusations are in reality, more of a survey’s result than my own opinion. The fault of many of these accusations lie in the closed doors of the staff, and its interaction with the rest of the community. If players were not kept in the dark of the staff’s joining process, and in fact have a small role in it, things may very well be different. Lack of progress is a large, over encompassing opinion for many veterans of the game, even though many of the dungeons are in fact aimed at veterans themselves.

The resulting “rant” as you all call it can in fact be taken as a public outcry, where I have taken the opinions, complaints, and irritations of the community and formatted it into one compressed complaint.

There are some complaints which are unreasonable, yes, and you may encounter a lot of them in the game. However, it certainly does not mean you can ignore criticism on the Forums which will ultimately improve the game. Regardless of how unpleasantly the thread may have been worded (Rubickx has stated this was intentional), it brings up some very valid issues that I hope the Staff team can work together to solve.

Your response is only adding to Rubickx’s points One and Two:

This ends and leads to another one of their points:

There is a lack of trust for the Staff Team.

Although I’m not a fan of pointing fingers in public AND a supporter of more discreet user reports (PMs are a thing, folks!), I think it was an appropriate “example” of mismoderation. This was an important piece, but it was not the main complaint of the thread, which I would like to highlight.

I think Rubickx was trying to say the following, and please, correct me if I am wrong. This is just what I’ve taken from reading the various posts in this thread.

  1. Hire new, competent, and trustable Staff. Those who are willing to work the hours others cannot, talk with the players in game, etc.

  2. The Staff, although they are aware of the various suggestions, need to REPLY more. There needs to be a level of acknowledgement, and hopefully a progress report or something that says “We’ve read this and are building upon it. This is what we want to do with this thought in the future.” Encourage the discussion, build upon what players have said, get input from them and give them reasonable constraints if need be. The gaping hole of “Staff Interaction” can easily be filled starting with this thread.

2.5 (Not really Rubickx’s idea, but my two cents.) In addition to this, promotion of the Forums in game would be fantastic. It’s a beautiful place for discussion when used correctly (this thread right now) that can be more easily moderated than in game. It also boasts the Report User forum which would take a load off of the moderating team’s shoulders, I believe.

  1. Progress other than dungeons needs to be made. Dungeons only offer so much when we lack things such as a proper tutorial and other features. Features that require scripting / coding (whatever the proper term is) and not just editing numbers in an editor. Features that are new and refreshing and not just a buffed up former dungeon with type changes.

  2. Clean up the Staff team. Remove inactives, remove retired staff from current decisions, and encourage hiring capable people.

[hr][/hr]

At the end of the day, yes, I may not agree with the tone this was originally written with, but Rubickx brings up some completely valid points and issues that should be addressed to some degree. Regardless of how “insulting” this may sound, please look beyond that, understand their frustration, and reply from there. It may seem unpleasant, but we just need to work through things like this.

If you need more clarification on certain points, I am sure Rubickx would not mind expanding on their ideas, after all - this is not a small topic.

I totally support this idea. In fact, not many people are active on forums. We can even make some “forum-events” with rewards that will be given in-game. I do agree that staff should also be more active on forums and reply to suggestions a bit more often. But, then again, if you have just a few staff actives, you can’t expect all of them replying into suggestions nor contributions.

And something i’d like to add about the game devolpment. I know we all would love to see the admins adding more content daily, or weekly, but we have to keep in mind that this is not a Nintendo game. Nintendo has tons of paid people who’s their main job is to work for the game. And even if they take an year or so to develop the game, these games end. When you are working on developing a MMO, progress is made slower. I do understand people concerns, and i am not a staff but i am trying to contribute to the game, and i can tell you we are not a HUGE group, everyone does what they can, and we spend our free time trying to improve player’s experiences and making the game better.

Now, i know a lot of things have to be worked on, as i pointed in my previous post. Staff could be better, but this doesn’t mean they are not good. I believe hiring new staff would fix the main problem. But i do also believe whoever applies have to be sure of what he/she is getting into. Being a staff o a game is all about responsabillity, and being there for players, especially moderators.

But i do not believe things can’t be fixed out. I believe even though we are unsatisfied with certain situations, we should support the team suggesting changes as we have done.

We are a group, a big one, but a group after all. Can’t we just try to work all together? :?: