Talk About Bans - Processing, Etc

[CorndogQuannie]

As PMing Admins via Forums tends to be suggested, I decided to just ask about bans rather than appeal.

Naturally I have been banned from PMUniverse. Whoa, oh no, big deal. I don’t mind. After all, I’ve been ban evading as Agent Z. This is fact.

Getting wrecked so hard doesn’t induce hate or frustration or anything. All good. What doesn’t really appeal to me is the process around a ban. After a ban, one is informed that they can appeal through forums contacting Staff. Nice nice cool.

The big problem? Going through that very process. This is perhaps my 4th or 5th time being banned, but let’s pretend that is not important. Let’s ask the following questions.

1. Why was the name Jay RainbowHeart mentioned?
   I haven"t been under that name for a good two to three years. In other words that is the past.

2. Why is the past included?
   Suppose someone really wanted to “reform”, or rather actually adjust themselves according to their apparent
   flaws. How can they even hope to do that if whenever they present themselves, everything they may or may
   not have done is presented like a giant wall? What is the point? Are there grudges?

3. Why accumulation?
   This alone is rather terrible. Let"s put it this way; you carry a jar of pebbles. Make a wrong step and you drop and spill, depending on severity. When a person trips and drops pebbles, it"s like their pebbles are taken and put into a collection especially for them to see when and after they get banned. There is no attempt to perhaps, help them get those pebbles together?

There is no point portraying friendly helpfulness if the potential of honest mistake is disregarded. Although, when people get banned, it"s not rare to see them try to justify themselves, so I can understand.

4. Why does communication tend to be poor?
   I have spoken to some members of Staff via Skype. They all went by fine. But when it"s bans, it is left up to the Admins. Why can"t reasoning or discussion happen? Suppose there are Staff who disagree with unbanning someone.

Why, and why are they unreachable? Everything a person does involving this kind of thing has one goal; being unbanned. In fact this thread was made to effectively appeal. There is no objection, unless ofc you hate someone, as surely everyone deserves a chance. If you, as a reader, said “You just wanna get unbanned!”, why else would such things happen? You"d want it too, but naturally you care not, as you are not a banned being.

As the bans passed and went, so did the styles. The current style is pretty serious…

5. Why so shady about it?
   There were a couple times I"d tell a Staff member what another said, and they"d say they had no idea. That really sucks. By the way, can you tell by that screenshot the way I was banned? Straight outta nowhere I got quite the warning, and then immediately banned right after. I make situations very simple and easy; the shadiness does not.

It"s in fact this kinda thing that has banned users hitting 30 backflips trying to get details or “proof”. I get it, fan-game, Staff > U, but don"t you guys wanna like, improve that? What"s the point of talking to “good, non-corrupt professional active insert-great-reputation-here” Staff if they are probably unable to really help? I don"t get it, we don"t get it, no one gets it. I see people “defending” Staff, the most common tool being “they have their reasons”.

I am aware of bias, but it"s much less relevant in players because players cannot ban and unban or hold any valid authority. I am here avoiding offending and defending altogether. I am not playing those games, and hopefully no one will poison this topic.

I think the biggest problem ever is misunderstanding, and also that the Staff team of PMUniverse as a whole can be 12x better if only they"d be happy to sit down and chat rather than silently and distantly move about and do the things that they may or may not do. If I actually get no answers that"s even more misunderstanding. What is so hard about confronting true problems right there in my, his, her, our and their faces?

This thread was made because of potential that I misunderstand. We misunderstand. You misunderstand.
If this is actually threatening to the point of, say, a lock, then at least leave detailed enough answers that no one, say, restarts this thread 90m times. And please no “kthxbye” parting shot material.

Try not to reply if your opinion is like gasoline. Someone else probably has that lighter in theirs. You know, help this look as perfectly not rude and rulebreaking and especially scary-to-Staff as possible.

[CheckeredZebra]

I brought this up in the game chat a while back in one of my usual novel-writing escapades.

Right now I think we have a staff group that is entirely bottlenecked. In other words, many responsibilities are falling on a few people for implementation, while a bunch of other people are unable to do anything other than stand around. This is complicated if you look at the larger picture because it requires a ton of actual work to fix most of it, but for the case of bans, it should be manageable.

1. Make a rank dedicated to strict rule enforcement that includes bans. Make sure the group is filled with people who are more interested in trying to understand and work with those who are breaking rules instead of people who are just interested in finding reasons to ban as many people as possible. Make sure that this rank is considered an “honor” or AKA not a “throwaway” or “stepping stone” rank like MOD unfortunately is right now.

2) Make the rank archive their reasons. This means video, screenshots, etc all have to be posted in staff-only areas. This lets other authorized staff to double check their work, see past behavior of players, etc and allows everyone to make informed decisions. If the reasons and evidence for a ban are not archived or the reasons/evidence are insufficient, the ban is automatically overturned. Why? Because a poorly-kept system involving harsh punishments is just massive abuse cases/massive drama waiting to happen, regardless if said abuse is intentional or not.

This will mean players will have a group that deals with bans/appeals that is also reachable and not overwhelmed. As an added bonus, this rank takes a lot of work off other ranks, because said other ranks (normally management) only have to get involved when it comes to re-investigating a ban. (For example, if there was a mistake, the ban was not properly archived or the player requests for a 2nd opinion, then an admin can look over the case instead of having to preside over every single case.)

This group can also be generally hidden from other staff groups, which allows for discreet investigations into existing staff if there are reports of them abusing their position made by players or other staff. This lets admins+banstaff fire other staff while having the investigation, evidence, etc recorded just in case drama from kicking an abusive staff arises. It also lets the process be organized and respectful of all individuals involved.

This creates a system of psuedo checks and balances as well as record keeping. If the staff in that rank do care about people and just want to see people’s behavior improve (AS THEY SHOULD), they can compare current behavior to previous behavior via the archives and give people 2nd chances when appropriate. (Speaking from experience, you really don’t have to always resort to hardline bans if people are quiet about their past and are behaving after creating a new comeback account. Just saying as an observation in general, not necessarily for this guy since I don’t know him.)

[system]

Hey there CDQ. Thanks for posting your thoughts on the matter. Now,

Your name was probably mentioned to clear out the fact that you were banned under that name (or at least I think you were).

I personally feel that the appeal system could be worked a bit better (for example instead of just admins, the whole team can participate and vote) and we could potentially set up a forum strictly for ban appeals - it would be something that brings us staff closer and would help the banned users have an easier way to appeal: by having a venue where they can lay out everything they know and feel and for us to explain and discuss.

In regards to accumulation, I feel as though there’s no issue with it as long as things from, say, years ago aren’t brought up again. People can change over time and I’m willing to give chances.

I can also agree that the communications between staff and players is a bit off, but we actively are trying to improve this - while you guys don’t get to see this, we actually are. We also strive to do our best and support our vibrant and amazing community here at PMU.

I’d also like to make it clear that this is my opinion and I do not speak on behalf of the staff team.

-Carlos